Oral History Archive

Interviews

as part of Free the Land! Free the People!

a study of the abolitionist pod

The Plant Plug

Interview with Taylor Lindsey

June 2023 | South Central, CA

Makayla Howard (MH): Can you introduce yourself and a brief history about the Plant Plug™️?

Taylor Lindsey (TL): My name is Taylor. I'm a gardener and I’m an agricultural educator and entrepreneur. The Plant Plug™️ is a community-supported small business. I'm the sole owner and operator. I go around teaching people how to grow their own food, how to know their own food, to question food. I mostly do fruits and vegetables, and small space agriculture, and I teach people that you can work with what you have. I establish sustainable systems. I want people to know about what's been taken away from us over a course of 40 to 400 years [that] is still in our blood and we should be practicing it. Not just as a hobby but also as a life skill. So, that's what the Plant Plug™️ is all about. It’s also in the name. The plug is exactly what it's supposed to be, but just with plants.

ali reza (ar): When was the Plant Plug™️ founded?

TL: The Plant Plug™️ was founded in 2019. I have it on my shirt. Yeah. So, June 28th will be our four-year anniversary. That's like tomorrow. This month has been going by really fast.

MH: What inspired you to create this space?

TL: My parents' ambition to grow their own food inspired me at first. My motivation to make this happen and turn it into what it is now is [that] I've always wanted a business and I've always been obsessed with results and production. And, just the abundance that plants are and that provide, just took off for me one summer. I used to sell my plants for a dollar - I had 75 plants, so I would make $75. What inspired me to keep it going - because so many businesses shut down, I don't know this exact statistic, but so many businesses shut down within their first two years, and I made it past my two-year mark - is because of just certain things not being available and provided, and I was able to self-fund. When the pandemic hit, that's when this kind of became a calling. Actually, I was to be a personal trainer. My background is actually in personal training, sports medicine - recovery. I saw the relevance and the demand, and it just got louder and louder with seeing how many grocery stores aren’t out here. We're dead center in a food desert, meaning that it's an underserved area without access to fresh food, let alone organic, which is another story. Every corner is a gas station, liquor store, laundromat, and a fast food spot. So, we're dead center in that. You can go down the street, and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. So, I just was - I was literally not sleeping, just thinking about all the creative things that I can do to get this out to people. I had a vision that this type of stuff will one day be on every single block, and every single household, because - I don't have to be worldwide. I don't have to have mass distribution. I just want to challenge so many things. That’s ultimately what inspires me, and I get inspired every day. Just being out here is inspiring, or there's something that I can do, or there's something that I can give away, or there's something that I can sell in order to sustain myself. It's something to wake up to that gets me out of bed every single day. That's what inspires me.

ar: Under what conditions was this organization founded?

TL: What was happening? What was happening? I was going through my own tumultuous transformation. I don't know if you guys have ever heard about the return of Saturn in your life, metaphysically, but it is a disaster. I was going through that. Also, I was an avid career changer. I've changed my career four times, because I think that we're ordained to do some things, but we never get to find out what that is. But, I think that we're indoctrinated to do a lot of things that are not for us, and that includes whether it's just linking up having kids moving forward, or even the whole college four step, because it is a four-step process. I really didn't know what to do after high school, other than make money. Making money was my only focus. Then, I was in a place where I was a big people pleaser. I didn't know how to tell people no, and I was helping a lot of people with their careers with what they had going on, especially a lot of rappers. I was around a lot of rappers at the time, and I wasn't really doing much for myself. Then there was this tipping point, because I was working at a gym and a grocery store, so I was doing about 60 hours a week, and I had this going on in 2019. I remember actually, it was on the back burner. I remember December 31st, 2019, being at my grocery store job, and I snapped. I literally snapped. I lost it. I walked out and I said, I'm not coming back and I'm not doing this anymore. So, I had a lot more time on my hands. And then, I was like, wait, this is just right in front of me. This is literally my backyard. Why am I not pouring all my desire to help other people - because it’ll still be there - but let me give some of that to myself. If I focus on myself, just an inkling, a percentage of what I did for other people, I'll be able to go above and beyond, because that's what I can control. So while losing myself, all these things fell into place, and I found myself through plants, and plants just became bigger and bigger and bigger in my life. Then, I did the leap of faith on August twenty - I think it was August 28th or 29th, 2021 - when I quit my job and took the leap of faith. Then I got to do this full time. So, [in] 2019, it was founded. I did have a name, I had a presence online, and social media. But, when it really took off was that - like, I was so done, I was so done working for that company I was working for. I was so done with feeling taken advantage of. I was so done with not knowing or having a clear path. Also, I didn't know what I was doing. Let me just say that. I feel like people - especially in adulthood - a lot of us are just making it up as we go by, and that's okay. It's okay not to have it all figured out, even financially. I was blocking my own blessings, getting in my own way with the presumption that I had to be this person or be everything to everybody. Now I feel like, well, I'm not. I could be nothing to nobody and be totally fine with that, if that's how I get my peace, then that's fine.

MH: Who or what spaces have done similar work in the past that have inspired this organization?

TL: Can I be honest with you? Drug dealers? Drug dealers. Like, I was obsessed, and I actually kept quiet about that for years, because of the shame that comes with it. And I don't want to - drug addiction is not trivial to me - and I don't want to gloss over that like, I'm promoting those types of things. Because what's happening right now is absolutely deadly. One thing that influenced me a lot was I used to see how Rick Ross modeled his distribution, and how they talked, and how they were on every block, and how Black men specifically had this business acumen. Naturally. They didn't go to college to do what they did - to where they were creating their own language, when they'd have phone taps and wires that law enforcement couldn't understand. It's really taboo. But where I come from, you had three options growing up: sports, music, drugs. And that was the only way you were going to make money. Where we're at right now was deemed the most dangerous part of America by the mass media. 1992, 1993, and so forth, where so many people were scared to live here that they abandoned their own homes. These homes were $15,000 when I was born. They’re now in the millions - almost. The average house out here in South Central is $650,000. That's like for a stack of popsicle sticks. So, that model really inspired me when I was younger, and even till now. Hence the name The Plant Plug™️. I tell people that drug culture - [drug culture], I just want to be specific, I don't want people to take that out of context - and hip hop culture [have] more impact on the world, in my experience through my eyes, than anything else I've ever seen. It's in our art. It's in our music. Rap music is surpassing country music right now in the USA, for being the most popular music in the world. And it's in every single thing. People even lie about being drug dealers and gang bangers, just so they can sell more albums. But for me, to have it be tangible and physical, physically come together, comes back to what those drug dealers did - they seized the means of distribution. They became their own distributors and then they had to go, because they were making too much money. That's not what I'm trying to do per se. I do things at a much smaller scale. So, I started my own distribution. I have a background in finance, so when I was looking at - I used to watch American Greed a lot, which is full of scammers. The scammers that got away with it. I'm talking about white collar, lobbyists, people in those arenas, people that sold stocks and stuff, and I would see what they did and - I don't know if it's [a] backwards way of putting things together, but I would like, okay, look how fast this took off. Look how powerful this became. Look at the marketing that they didn't have to do, because we're not seeing commercials on TV for drugs. We're not seeing commercials on TV for scams. But, these people are making so much money. So, if I could just take some principle or some foundation of that, and do it for the community, flip it on its head agriculturally. It can be something, because I literally had nothing starting. I’m not talking about provisional. My parents gave me everything that I needed to grow up, like this and that. I just mean for the business, and that's who I modeled [it] after. Because I'll be honest with you, and I've been told this by other people that work in agriculture. Nobody's doing what I'm doing. Nobody. Even from the lectures and the workshops - I don't really do a lot of lectures, I like hands-on, because I’m a hands-on learner. Nobody's doing what I'm doing. But, I took bits and pieces from places that don't deal with plants, and then put it into my agricultural teaching. So, my influence would be finance, fitness, and the streets. That's what made up everything it is today. I just wanna be honest about that, because it's - I think it's shocking for me to say it, but I want to be honest. Like that's what influenced me to do what I do. And it's very deadly out there with what's happening with drugs and so forth. I just would love for that kind of stuff to end, but I just mean the business acumen that these men, and some women, innately had blows my mind. If you go look back at any other documentaries, or how their empires may have fallen - like I saw Rick Ross, the other day at a vegan restaurant smiling, he was so happy. Like I saw him at a vegan restaurant. He looked so happy. He was glowing. But if you just watch that and just listen to how they talk, and how they carry themselves, and how they just went about, “I'm just going to business for myself.” And, they still took care of everybody. Which in an odd way, it just really stuck with me. I know how capitalism can be. That's my issue. There's no cap. There's a lot of cap and there's no cap. There’s no cap [meaning] there's no stopping how much and what means people can make money, and there's no stopping how poor somebody can become. That's my issue. There's no leveling out. I just felt like my means, and also what some of these people did is the great equalizer in the sense that, I don't have to give anybody the shirt off my back. I don't have to be sacrificial. I don't have to be Mother Teresa. But, if I have 30 shirts, I don't need 30 shirts. You know what I’m saying? I only need seven shirts, one for each day of the week. The rest I can give away or sell or whatever, and not be crazy with the markup and all that. I don't have to do all that. I think - to answer your question in a nutshell - it's the antithesis of what I see other retailers do or what other businesses do. And, I haven't gone under. I haven't had to close up shop. I receive certificates and accolades and recognition beyond whatever I would dream of because of the type of work I do. And this is just the beginning. Yeah, this is just the beginning.

ar: Are there any contemporary spaces similar to yours?

TL: You guys know where I'm going with this. You know exactly where I'm going with this. I love the work that Crenshaw Dairy Mart is doing. I really do. It was such an honor to be brought on to the first [abolitionist] pod project, because I've never seen that before. And, y'all showed me what a healthy work environment was with having more of a - I feel like it's more of like a team and community than a staff, if that makes sense. It's an evolution of what I wanted - I didn't know I wanted. As far as, the expansion of our work and making our visions a dream come true, and y'all are making that happen. And then I still get to experience that with the [abolitionist] pod. There's two [abolitionist] pods now, as far as growing and working within those spaces. I've never worked in such a geometrical space shaped like that before, because I’m just used to everything being flat. And it has just been absolutely amazing. Just for the idea of being able to have something free picked, that's such a foreign concept, especially for people of color that if you go into a store, they're already stamping and pegging us to steal. For me, even deep down psychologically, I have things that I had to dismantle myself when it came to that. There were some tomatoes growing at the pod, and they weren't there the next day, and the first thing I thought was somebody stole them. And then I was like, oh, I remember where I'm at, they're supposed to take them. So I see that with y'all. I have that going here. I want to see that happen in more spaces, where when it comes down to the work I do, is for there to be a free exchange of ideas that are equally met with an openness and willingness to learn. And, another area where there is free pick opportunities, but also as far as keeping the lights on because we can't keep the lights on with good vibes. Just being able to maintain and sustain financially as well, but with less dependence on having to pour all my money into buying groceries, because grocery is the bill now. It's been a bill, but now it's just out of pocket. I spend about $100 a week on groceries by myself, and just being able to reduce that and be able to pour [into] other things. Because, if I'm not putting that much money into that, because I can grow my own food, I could take in - if my friend has another CD come out, Lord, another mixtape, I can pay for that, or I could pay to go to their shows, or I could pay to support somebody else's thing, or somebody has a GoFundMe where they need food, or they need to pay their car note. I would be like, the $50 I was going to spend on my groceries anyways, because I'm eating good or I know where my next meals will come from because I know where this garden is over here and because this garden’s over here. I could be like, okay, I could give $5. Where it used to not be able to happen. But I'll be honest with you, I'm not really out there like that right now. I feel like there's a lot more spaces in Southern California, let alone L.A., to visit. I know of a ton of other farms and community gardens and stuff, but as far as this framework, I've only seen it exist in my space and at Crenshaw Dairy Mart.

MH: Can you explain the framework which encapsulates the Plant Plug™️?

TL: Yes, what encapsulates The Plant Plug™️ is to have ownership. Ownership is everything, but a full circle solution also includes being local. So, the thing about my ownership and the framework is that if I'm able to produce my own goods and supplies, I'm going to reduce the need and the utter dependence on somebody else doing that for me, which can become very costly. That includes people being priced out of their spaces, that includes people not being able to afford a next semester of schoolbooks, that includes people not being like me may not be able to function anymore because if I was a baker and now flour is $50 an ounce for whatever reason, which doesn't sound unrealistic one day, then I can't bake anymore. So, that's pretty much what it is. But, the mainstay of my work is education, to where I want to live in a world where I believe that there's room for all of us, not dog eat dog, not competitive. So I have no problem with people learning to do what I do. So that's how it all ties in. So, when people do come and buy plants from me, it's all encompassing. From beginning, middle, to end, I'm [gonna] tell you how I’m gonna take care of it. [I’m gonna] tell you what to do if it dies. [I’m gonna] tell you if we can compost it. [I’m gonna] tell you how to collect seed. And like I said, if I sell somebody an orange tree, and I see them with a marmalade stand, and they're selling orange trees the following year, I'm not going to be mad at them. Go ahead. Because, I have my piece of the pie. And also, what they're doing is not going to take away from me. That's my belief system. I see that manifest in different ways. We're not quite there yet as a society, but I really believe that I'm going to be able to see that within my lifetime.

ar: Can you give an example of a customer being able to become self-sustaining?

TL: So, a lot of them have expressed to me that they want to eventually because during the pandemic houseplants really took off. I don't do houseplants, because if it all goes down, we can't eat that fiddle fig, we can't eat that monstera. You can cook it - you tell me how it goes. I'm not turning to go to the hospital anytime soon. So the thing about that is a lot of them have expressed to it, but these things take time. So I can feel the seed planted. So, when I do visit their personal private spaces, I’ll be like, “Oh, you have more plants since the last time I talked to you, or you have a seed collection now, or I see you more at these lectures. I see you more at these workshops. I see you more at these other things like composting workshops,” - not just necessarily mine. I see them more in it. They're getting themselves together, and they're gathering the cells, and then when their plan hatches, because that's what I'm here for. You know, I've seen people want to just stay customers, too, which is interesting. I'd be like, “Oh, you can go, you don't have to keep buying from me.” They're like, “No, I like you, so I want to keep buying from you.” I have a client that buys this by the pound, like pounds of this, like ten, twenty [pounds] of it. They do skin care, hair care, salves and things like that. I haven't met anybody that has done that yet as far as like, “Oh, I started this and now this, this and this.” But, I feel like that's going to happen too, because it's a big deal for people to launch their businesses. I was in fear when I did. I was like, “What am I doing?” Because I had some things taken care of already with the companies I was with. I was like, I'm going to walk away from a grocery discount. I'm gonna walk away from a free gym membership to go garden? Why would I do that? But this has been the most abundant thing I've done. So I would love to see it. But, what they're not going to do is take my name. It's already happened three times. So, if I see somebody try to be the Plant Plug™️ Junior - no, ma'am. We will not be doing that. Put some respect on my name real quick, because that the one thing too. It's one thing to be inspired, it’s another thing to just straight up copy somebody or mimic them. I'm not trying to be Rick Ross. I'm not trying to be Beyonce, I'm not trying to be LIZZO, because they are who they are. I can say that without being shady. It's just like part of staying in my own lane and keep my peace is not driving into others. You know what I'm saying? So, I would love to see that, that somebody actually does that because it's a lot, though. I'll let you guys know, this is a lot. This is a lot to maintain. This is a lot to take care of. This is a lot to manage. And, I'm not upset that it's a lot. I'm not bothered by it at all. I'm glad it keeps me busy, but it might be overwhelming to somebody that's like seeing it from the outside in.

MH: Can you speak on your collaboration with abolitionist pod project?

TL: Yes, Yes, I can. How much time [do] we got? So how it all started was, I remember I got a call. It's been almost two years now, wow, two years. I got a call from Ms. Waunette that from WOW Flower Project saying, “Can we visit your space? I’m going to bring my friend with me, and a woman named Ashley will approve the purchase of as many plants you're willing to let us have. I didn't know who Ashley was at the time, and she's [a] very lovely lady, I'll tell you. But I was like, okay, just another sale. That's all I thought. That's all I thought. And then, Ms. Waunette came and visited, she wanted everything I had. And so, she got about 30 plants from me. She's like, “Hey, just let you know this is the project it's going to. Do you want to show up and actually be a part of it?” I was like, okay, I love art. I love art. And I just don't know what was going on. She's like, “Just meet me at MOCA, and help us install these plants,” and that's all I thought. But, it just kept getting broader, and broader, and broader, me being invited into this space. And I saw it and I was absolute blown away when seeing the canvas bags, and seeing the plant [abolitionist] pod, and seeing the sustainable material. I would have never dreamed of anything like that. Like I said, I love trash, because we can recycle it, and here's all this reusable compostable materials. Then it was a free market, It was free. And then, I was just - I didn't know who anybody was. I only knew [Ms.] Waunette. And B and P was there too. CSU was there too. They had their plants. And then, I went the day it opened, and nobody was there except for the security guards, and me and my mom just stood in it, and just felt all this energy. And it was absolutely incredible. For my parents to be able to see it, because they got me into gardening because all the gardening classes. And my mom used to take me to a nursery after school, [I’d be] like, “Oh my god, another -”. She's like, “Yes, I need a plant.” So, her getting to see that. My dad getting to see that. Then, I remember when it opened, and it had its run and then the run got extended to two months. It was only supposed to be a couple of weeks. Then all these people visiting. And I'm like, “There's my aloe vera plant,” and just feeling connected in that way. We didn't know each other yet, but just feeling the connection that way. And then, I remember I got another call. I don't remember who called me. They're like, “Hey, we need some help.” It may have been ali reza. Or somebody emailed me, like, “Hey, do you want to come help volunteer? We're doing another [abolitionist] pod. We moved it over here, and we have another prototype,” and I’m like sure. Once again, not knowing nobody. I saw Ms. Waunette there and ali reza was there and Vic was there, and they were putting together this [pod] with the color coding system. And I'm like, “What's going on?” I was blown away again. And then I remember the opening day, and that's when I met Patrisse [Cullors], and all these people were there. They said, “Did anybody want to speak,” and of course I love to talk, and I got open because we were at the [Care First] Village, which also used recycled materials. Housed 150 people [out] of these cargo storage-like bins [shipping containers]. I don't know what they're called. You usually see them on the back of a train, and they house individuals. Then I felt open to tell my story because I've been sober for ten years now. I used to be in jail a lot, and I told that to a bunch of people I didn't know 100% yet, because I just felt - first of all, I did not know what abolitionism was. I'll let you know. I did not know what that meant. I thought it was a group of artists. I was like, “Oh, so this is what they call themselves?” But, I looked it up. I'm like, “Oh, freedom! [We don’t got] freedom!” And so, I got up there, and I was honest with everybody. I felt like I was among a group of my peers. And, I remember Patrisse glowing, and she was just crying nonstop. I was just seeing how much this moved her, and then everybody seeing their piece, and it just didn't feel like another garden installation for another Earth Day. I felt like this place is going to get continually cared for. And then when I found out its intentions and its motivations and also the spirit it carried, it met me in a place where I was already at. Come as you are and we’ll take care of the rest, as a community. That was the first time I felt that with a garden project. So, that just turned into an ongoing relationship. It was kind of hard because I wasn't so used to people that hired me for anything to have so much communication, as well as being willing to help me. So, I didn't know how to ask ya’ll for help when I was struggling. I was trying to do everything by myself. And then, I was told, “If you need anything, seriously please ask us, because we don't want any of us - none of us have the struggle.” And I forgot that I don't have to do things alone, and the [Crenshaw] Dairy Mart showed me that with the plants and the [abolitionist] pod project. I now help take care of the one in Inglewood, which is the original prototype made of bamboo. And, the fact that it's still up, it didn't rot and fall apart. It just goes to show how strong these plant materials are. It's still up and running. It’s absolutely beautiful. You get hummingbirds on telephone poles that can't wait to come eat. With these other projects I was given all this creative control to do my chaos gardening. We were growing corn on asphalt in March. It blew my mind. The group was willing to learn from me too, and they were just saying we want to bring you on because of your creativity, not just the labor. I'm just so used to the labor. Just put my head down and work. Not here. And it's been such an enthralling, exciting, creative process, and there's more to come, and now we're filling boxes with collard greens. That’s grown [from] a pile of compost, and the [CDM-FAACE] cohort gets to take that home every Tuesday. And now we have peas and beans and things like that. It's just continuing to [feed] itself. We actually have our own seed collection now that we grew ourselves. Just being able to create another system of sustainability and open more paths of abundance, in a parking lot! I forget all the time, but you all call the parking lot the playground, and I see why now. There's just so much celebration and wonderful things that happen in that [abolitionist] pod too. Because I'll be honest, I don't see a lot of global sphere-shaped structures in society. If we look out, everything is flat and square. Even our schools are built like prisons and they use the same companies to provide their materials. It's still fascinating to me this day. I think about it when I'm not there. I miss the rain though, because when it rains I don't have the water. I love watering, but the rain just does those plants so good, so much good. It's going to keep going. That's what I love about it. That's my relationship to that [space], and it's alive. It is alive! Let me tell you. Things are just taking off over there as we speak. It's just such an exciting experience. And I really express my gratitude almost every time I'm there, even when I'm not there, that you guys have brought me in and let me be who I am there. So thank you.

ar: Can you speak on the importance of community?

TL: So the thing is, I've been asked that before, and I was telling a group of my peers how I don't know what community is. I don't. I don't. It's still something that I want to read up on, especially as a disenfranchised people like Black people, we don't really know where we came from. If somebody asked me what part of Africa is in your blood, I’d be like, “I don't know. You tell me.” So the thing about that, even [in an] established community, I live in a neighborhood where people are afraid to go outside. So this is all new to me and I'm seeing that by being community-driven and community-supported without 100% knowing what your endgame is, in fact, what you're looking for - it blows my mind, because it's something that I didn't know I needed, let alone, I don't know 100% when to instill. I just know first and foremost, don't be selfish. The reason why community is so important is because once we get to that place where, not only is it tangible but, we can encapsulate what it means to be a community, we know what it takes to sustain community, we know what it takes to deal with conflict within the community, also, without it becoming a hierarchy without it becoming patriarchal, without it becoming violent, then we can continue to instill that. I know that we are preparing for a world that doesn't exist yet. All of us. All of us. That's my purpose. And, if anybody doesn't have a specific purpose, I hope that can at least give them some type of idea for what we got going on. It's really important because people are dying, falling apart, hitting levels of poverty that have never been seen before. Financially speaking, they keep blaming inflation for everything that’s going on right now. It's not. Inflation's a scapegoat. So that's why community is so important. Through abolition, I was also at the same time introduced to mutual aid. It's solidarity, not charity, in a sense that if I have more than what I need. I can give this to somebody else that has a lot less than what they need. I've seen a lot of charitable organizations not be thorough and honest. So I was just like, “Okay, what are you guys doing? Why are you making six figures?” Meanwhile, people aren't - And also, I've seen the other side of it, just absolute greed. I think the importance of that is showing community that we don't have to succumb - the path that has been set for us - we don't have to take that path. We don't have to be just a rapper, an athlete, or a drug dealer, or gang banger in order to survive. We don't have to do those things. If you're good at it, fine. But, you don't have to take that preset that's put out there for [us]. I think that's the importance of community. And also, even more importantly, is diversity within community. A lot of people assume just by my name, and by the way I talk, that I'm not a Black person, let alone a woman. Then when they see me they're like, “Oh, you did this,” because there needs to be representation of all types within the community. We can belong to multiple communities simultaneously. And last but not least, which is actually even more important is intersectionality! Intersectionality within community! I'm part of multiple communities, and when we reach those crossroads where I can just get off and be like, “Well, you're too different from me in this way, so I'm no gonna mess with you.” Intersectionality. That's why community is so important. So I really want to instill that. It's definitely instilled in my business. I would not be where I'm at right now if it wasn't for my community and also my parents. Shout out to my parents. But also I just think it's really important to put that forth because I know I'm not a millionaire right now. I know why I'm not. It’s not just because of what was said before me. It’s because I want to see everybody eat, too. I really want to see everybody eat. I don't want nobody trying to come up on me, though. Let me get that real clear. Let me get this straight right now. But I want to see everybody eat. That’s [the] difference between equality and justice and also equity - communities also having equitable spaces too. If somebody needs to eat more than I do, literally, they need three plates of food because that's just how they eat - fine. That's okay. We as a community, we should be able. And I feel like we can provide those things. [Us meeting] people where they're at and finding what their needs are - and not selfish wants. But I think all that gets muddled together. All that gets mixed and mashed together because people don't know what to do. People don't know how to - also, because of colonialism - don't know how to be communal. And it's always for a come up. I’m really seeing people struggle with that, with community projects or even community gardens. They struggle with, “Oh, I have to be the leader. I have to be in charge.” They struggle with [things being autonomous] and also they struggle with things being altruistic. Me giving you something, and just let you have it. Not being like, “Oh, remember five months ago when I gave you $20,” and then [writing] that for the rest of your life. [You’ll be like,] “I'm never taking [anything] from her again. So I think that's really important. I don't really have words for the communal application for that because it's still in practice. So if y'all can suggest anything about what I can read about establishing community, please send it my way.

MH: What vision do you hold for Plant Plug™️ and beyond?

TL: The vision for Plant Plug™️ is just to be sustainable, but sustainable mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. I'm not talking about financially. That is a goal of mine, of course. And I do ask for funding from my community. I ask for funding from financial institutions. I ask for funding from nonprofits that work alongside agricultural businesses. Sustainably, mentally and spiritually [were] the hardest thing for me, being that I didn't know how to say no to work because I really thought, if I don't do this, I might starve to death and die. And also my workload, in a sense that I can manage all of this by myself. But to have a community garden or a farm is out of the question because let's be realistic here. I'm one person. So for the Plant Plug™️, I want an orchard. I want a free-pick orchard. I want people to come to my space and just take things, take as they need from trees, as trees give to us. And I would love to be able to visit more workspaces and also bring this stuff to spaces that usually wouldn't have it, just like as the [Crenshaw] Dairy Mart did. Like we're literally growing food in a parking lot, you know? And also changing infrastructure. That's a very broad stroke, right? But I want the work that I do to literally be on every block, on every block, and without having to advertise. Just like I said before with Rick Ross's [world], they didn't have to advertise anything. Everybody just knew of it. And it's odd. It's odd because it's an infamy in a way. It is an infamy [in a] way. But at the same time establishing my own space, I want to stay here. I want to stay here. I would love to have a home here to where it would be transformed in the same fashion. And I would love to be everywhere I can be. Everywhere I can take this as far as just planting the seed of education because I wanted a store [in] my first year. I don't want a store because a lot of people are getting priced out of their spaces. You guys heard about Plant Chica, you heard about other places. They're losing their space because people that own these spaces see what’s going on. They’re upping the price and also gentrification is taking over South Central one house at a time. And I I'm so glad I never chose to have a brick and mortar because I don't want to talk. I'd be sitting there all day like, “You want to buy some plants?” Where I feel like I could reach more people [otherwise]. If I'm at a store for 8 hours a day trying to sell plants, I feel like I won't reach as many people. It'll just be about the sale and the transaction. Where if I did 8 hours of workshops, I could reach a ton more people in that fashion. And that's what drives me. So that's where I want to be. It's interesting because I've already done a lot of these things. I've gotten to speak at colleges. I got to speak at Cal State Fullerton. I got to do panels. And there's more things coming up like that. I think just as far as being able to expand things like that, I would love to train more people in what I do so they can do it for themselves. Imagine seeing as many nurseries as you do McDonald’s out here. Out here! Because I want it [to happen] out here! Out here in South Central, in Inglewood, in Compton. Compton is full of farm! Compton is all farmland. So that's definitely what I see. And also I would love to create more curriculum and more media around my studies and actually being able to put that out for somebody to have. Whether it's a book, whether it's a digital library. I would love to do that for the Plant Plug™️ as well. For the people, by the people, I say. It's going to be a lot of fun coming up. And thank you all for doing this. I really appreciate it. Yes, I really, really appreciate it. Sorry. Sorry for the bugs. It's really a farm out here. It's a jungle out here. It's ferocious. It's yeah, there's a lot going on. Birds are dropping their eggs. There's cats everywhere. There might be a lizard somewhere. I don't know. It's just real birds. Yeah, it's really going down.

ar: Can you describe the impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic and the Uprisings of 2020 on your work and programming?

TL: The major shift for me was during the pandemic. In 2020 I was still deep in personal training [and] fitness. I went from being a powerlifter to all this stuff and just being absolutely obsessed with my process. And I loved it. I still love it to this day. And then it was the day that Kobe Bryant died [big cultural shift] - I was actually in a fitness expo and amongst my people I saw this huge cultural shift with that. And immediately after, a month after, with my birthday, I remember being in a buffet when Trump was announcing the pandemic. [Cause] I heard about this little virus in China. I'm like, “Okay,” and I'm in Vegas for my birthday exactly a month, February 26, and that's when Trump announced the pandemic. I was like, “Oh, God, him again.” I wasn't really worried about COVID. I was more so worried about him. And then I get back and people are sick in Los Angeles. I was actually sick. I don't know what I had, but now looking back at it, I probably had the precursor to it because I was going through all this stuff, and then my job was like, “Are you coming back?” I went back. And in March - I worked at a gym at the time - they're like, “Hey, you guys we’re shutting down March 17th is our last day.” Okay, now what. So we shut down the gym and I didn't know what to do with myself at first. I was kind of gardening here and there, because that still existed in the back and then everything shut down and I was worried about my coin but we were getting the EDD and the pandemic money, so I was okay. So I'm like, okay, I'm just going to work out at home and then do my little gardening and see what I can grow here, you know? And if anybody wants to buy some plants, I'm online, you can come get them, whatever. It's not full throttle immersive. The grocery stores start to get wiped out. People fighting over water, toilet paper, you know, struggling. People not even having money because [through] your job, you ain't getting nothing. No severance, no kiss on the cheek. Good luck - not even a good luck - with that. You ain't getting nothing. And I saw that. I was like, wow, I really got to grow more food because people need it. And I knew if I taught more people how to do this more so than trying to sell plants, we could be okay. And then I looked to the people I looked up to in the fitness industry. People with million-people followings, people with multiple championships - and also bodybuilding is Black dominated. It is. It's Black dominated. Most of the champions are Black. So this will lead to my next thing. They were at the time doing a crushing challenge in their bicep. You know how I feel about eggs. And I was like, “Y'all, what are you doing?” People are literally fighting tooth and nail, clearing out grocery stores, the supply chain backed up at the ports, and you guys are crushing eggs for fun? It's elitist, it's classist. And I was disgusted. And I was like, okay, let me not look at this. But I still had faith. Then George Floyd was killed. A lot of people don't know, the times I did go to jail, half of it was for protesting. Half the time I've been to jail was for protesting. It was an anti-capitalist protest called Occupy back in 2011. So going protesting was nothing new to me, but I had to stop doing it because it's so traumatic. Being on the front lines is so traumatic, and also it can result in nothing but you going to jail. Now you have a rap sheet. So I wasn't going to that. But once again, I [turned] to the fitness industry to see what they were going to say, being that it’s predominantly Black men that are the biggest names in the industry. And they said nothing. They said nothing. And my heart dropped. And I was like, you know what? I'm leaving. I don't care. I don't care that I paid for my certificate. I don't care that I've been doing this for nine years and I had my heart set. Having my own gym one day - whatever. I’m not doing this with y'all. Because you all been wasting food and you have nothing to say about this man. And they have their elitist line. Then they were lying to people saying that they can get a physique like that if they just do it by their 500 push-up program. So your fans don't have money and don't have jobs, and you guys are still going to sell these programs to people. Lying! So that's when all of this took off. I started to lose sleep. And then also I'm seeing my parents who were teenagers during the civil rights movement, which people forget about. Our parents and our parents’ parents are still very much alive. Some of them were marching with Martin. Sitting in the living room crying, watching George Floyd's funeral. My parents [just crying] and my heart broke. I can't even imagine how many times my parents have been through this. Living through that generation. And I had to do something. I know I had to do something. And there was a fire that was lit inside of me. So that's what really, really catapulted me to walk 100% away. So I had no qualms because when they brought us back to work at the gym and people didn't want to wear masks and then they're talking about this, this and that, and they didn't have the solution. I'm like, nothing changed with so many people. Till this day nothing changed with them. One of the deadliest viruses we have seen within the last 100 years, and they're still coming back on the same B.S. And that's when I left, I quit all the jobs I had. Finally, I left the fitness industry. Because I just knew that this is bigger than me and I have to be part of something bigger than me. And this is bigger than the fitness industry. And I'm not talking about money. This is bigger than all of that. And I had to answer that call. And that's what really threw me into everything. In 2019, it was like a cute little like, “Oh, here's some plants.” And now this is what I do. Get out of my way. Nobody's going to stop me from teaching people how to grow their own food. Because look at how these other institutions are responding. The NBA barely said anything. A lot of major institutions hardly said anything - from George Floyd. Kaepernick is never playing football again. And that was before George Floyd and all that happened. But that’s before that Uprising happened. Just things like that. And that was my last straw. That was definitely my last straw. I'm definitely inspired by what I saw with people that were younger than me because my time was like ten years [ago]. I was like 25 when I was out there in the streets doing all the protests. We were trying to shut down banks. But to see people out there that were the same age as me now - cause I'm 36 - it made me really, really excited because that lit a fire in a whole other generation or a group of people, Gen Z specifically, and I had a lot of hope and faith. I just want the kids to be safe. But at the same time, I was really disappointed in my peers. Like, damn, y'all really don't care, do you? Ya’ll have made your money and you're fine. So I was equally inspired as I was disappointed. And then that got me to where I'm at now. I still think about that time. 2020 was one of the best times for me because it cleared a lot of stuff. Cleared my path even more. For a lot of people, it was the worst time because they lost a lot. Children left orphans, people left, never being able to go back to work normally again. A lot of people - it was called the Great Migration - where people had to move back in with their parents because they couldn't afford to live out in L.A. anymore. Because in the meantime, rent got higher because these landlords lost money. Yeah, but they couldn’t-pay-on-their-third-yacht lost money. Me I'm gonna be on the streets and in my car and I-might-lose-my-car lost money. Like, let's be real. Yeah, it was something else. It was definitely something else. 2020 and then 2021 - 2021 I feel like was confusing for everybody because we're like, now what? And now 2023, everybody's outside with it. Like, I'm excited. I'm so excited because we had a lot of time to spend with ourselves. To see where we were at because we're like, “You ain't going nowhere.” And not nature healing while humans are gone, you know what I’m saying? Not the orcas turning over ships now because nature has had enough. Humans are ruining the planet. Can we stop? So I've just been thinking along those lines heavily for the last - since 2020 - for the last three years. Yeah.

This interview was conducted by CDM Co-founder alexandre ali reza dorriz with 2023 Getty Marrow Undergraduate Exhibitions and Archives Intern Makayla Howard and 2022-2023 Crenshaw Dairy Mart Fellowship for Abolition and the Advancement of the Creative Economy Programs Intern Magic Udeh on June 20, 2023. This archived transcript has been edited by 2024 California Lawyers for the Arts Designing Creative Futures Exhibitions Intern Avery Clark and 2024 Getty Marrow Undergraduate Programs and Exhibitions Intern Avery Collinsbyrd. This interview has been edited for brevity.

Gallery Open

Thursdays - Sundays

11:30 AM - 3:30 PM

On view September 21, 2024 through February 15, 2025

Free the Land! Free the People! a study of the abolitionist pod is organized as a survey and studio of the Crenshaw Dairy Mart artist collective’s ongoing research for the abolitionist pod, autonomously irrigated, solar-powered gardens within modular geodesic domes built with communities impacted by food insecurity, housing insecurity, and the prison industrial complex. The exhibition falls in conjunction with the artist collective’s year of programmed study and research, entitled Imagination Year, collating ongoing illustrations, archival documentation, architectural renderings, sketches, and drawings of the collective’s many configurations of the geodesic structure during its prototype phases as the year-long curriculum engages with a history of collectives and cooperatives at the interstices of food justice, land sovereignty, and the Black Liberation Movement.

The exhibition coincides with a concurrent resource and larger oral history archive indexing the networked Black farmers, gardeners, and Black-led organizations across Los Angeles county with whom Crenshaw Dairy Mart has collaborated with on the abolitionist pod, traversing contemporary movements towards alternative permacultures, which include localized, small-scale farming and micro-farming as models for community care, community safety, and economic autonomy within the larger contemporary abolitionist movement.

Free the Land! Free the People! a study of the abolitionist pod is among more than 60 exhibitions and programs presented as part of PST ART. Returning in September 2024 with its latest edition, PST ART: Art & Science Collide, this landmark regional event explores the intersections of art and science, both past and present. PST ART is presented by Getty. For more information about PST ART: Art & Science Collide, please visit pst.art